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Discussing Archaeological Issues & The Bible

The quotes we are using today come from different threads in the archaeology forum on CARM. We will provide links to each thread that we quote from so you can see the whole discussion and make up your own minds about what we are about to say

#1. http://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/secular/general-secular-and-apologetic-topics/archaeology/4337908-gobekli-tepe

The ruins are estimated to be 12,000 year old. This site may wind up causing a rewrite of some history books.

Ancient structures like Gobekli Tepe cause problems for people, especially Christians, because those who do the dating, do not allow for the interruption of the global flood. Of course the secular dating systems are off, including the pottery one because there are just too many problems involved with each one. We won’t go into those problems here but one example is the fact that no one knows how an artifact was placed where it was found. Assumption is not a good thing no matter how scientists use it. Then in the case of buildings, like Gobekli Tepe, there is just too much information lost to make a proper identification of its purpose and design.

Most archaeologists go for the temple explanation but everything from the past cannot be a temple, a goddess or cult site. It is unrealistic to even propose such ideas when nothing is known about the discovery. The words ‘I don’t know’ are better than lying or misrepresenting a discovery.

#2. http://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/secular/general-secular-and-apologetic-topics/archaeology/73164-new-reserch

We need to be cautious. We cannot extrapolate from this evidence that literacy was commonplace.

Neither can we to do to say that illiteracy was the norm. The evidence shows that the ancient world was very literate despite what some scholars claim in their studies and comments. We have libraries full of thousands of works, we have archives filled with business, government and legal activities and we have myriads of pottery with writing on them by common folk. Far too many to be written by a handful of scribes some scholars say existed at that time. The supply of scribes would not be great enough to (even by ancient population estimates) handle the writing tasks credited to them. To say that the ancient world was illiterate is simply being an ostrich and sticking ones head into the sand.

We have thousands upon thousands of public ancient monuments so if the ancient world was illiterate, who were they writing these monuments to? No those who champion an illiterate past do so in error.

Christopher Rollston advises caution.

Christopher Rollston may be an expert in his field but he does not bring the truth nor is he guided by the spirit of truth. We have talked to him in the past and he is not providing anyone with a clear picture of the past.

It is that celebrating minutiae that I have come to expect from Christians. Remember all of the commotion a few years ago when a chunk of pottery was found with the name ‘David’ on it, and suddenly we had proof that the bible was correct?

Non Christians distort what believers claim and say so we must be careful in our assessment of artifacts and discoveries. With that said, the name David on a piece of pottery may not prove King David but if it dates to the 10th century, then it confirms that the name David was used at that time so the Bible is shown to be correct because it used a name that was used in the time period its pages recorded. Also non Christians will reject any evidence supporting the Bible but that is because they are deceived an influenced by evil.

#3. http://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/secular/general-secular-and-apologetic-topics/archaeology/60894-flood-myth

According to archaeological investigations

Unbelievers like appealing to archaeology and other sciences because in most cases those fields tell them what they want to hear. They already know that archaeology is limited but that limitation supports the unbelievers desire and point of view so they will ignore the weaknesses of those research fields and use the information provided for their own benefit. They will also dismiss the results from the same research fields when those investigation support the Bible.Hypocrisy is great in the unbelieving world. The believer cannot elevate archaeology or other research fields above the Bible and think that those areas of study know more than God or the Bible. They would be elevating deception and blindness above the truth and that would be wrong.

Unbelievers will misuse historical information deceptively, you must be careful and know the topic you are discussing or you could have your faith hurt by what the unbeliever says.

There are over 500 flood legends in over 200 different lands. Do you think all of those people got it from Gilgamesh?

The person who asked this question asked the right one. Of course they did not get their legends from the Babylonians or Gilgamesh.They got them from their memories after being told about the flood by Noah and his family. As they strayed from God so did their memories and their unbelief led them to alter the truth and create fictitious flood legends. we find them all over the world because the memory of the flood was carried with the people as they dispersed from Babel. There is no other answer for why so many flood myths exist in the ancient world.

#4. http://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/secular/general-secular-and-apologetic-topics/archaeology/4101586-ancient-but-local-chinese-flood

Some Chinese geologists claim evidence for an ancient flood of the Yellow River.
Claim is a large landslip in a narrow gorge blocked the river, and created a very large lake. Flood resulted when the blockage eroded and the water was released in large flood.
Major difference is that floodwaters remained and resulting mud and sediment had to be drained.

It may just be a local flood. We can’t be certain because we do not know what the evidence for a global flood looks like or where it is to be found. There has only been one global flood and probably hundreds of thousands of local ones so any evidence for Noah’s deluge will be distorted, altered, wiped out and so on.it is hard to find evidence for something when natural disasters, wars, construction, traveling and other activities have gone over the evidence repeatedly for thousands of years.

 

LGBTQs Do NOT Love God

It is bad enough that we have to endure stories like the following

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland-thorns/2017/02/abby_wambach_announces_engagem.html

Soccer legend Abby Wambach announces engagement to Christian blogger Glennon Doyle Melton

but to call oneself a Christian is going too far. Not only are the women not Christian,for being Christlike is to be holy not practicing sin, they do not love God with all of their hearts, souls and minds. How do we know this? They have refused to give up their sin for God.Do not say you love God and Jesus and still keep practicing your sin. It is easy to say Jesus and God love me because they do and that knowledge makes one feel good, but that love does not mean one gets to keep being sinful. Love is a two-way street and to show love for both God and Jesus one must give up all their sins, accept God’s identification of what is or isn’t sin, and follow the Bible correctly. Jesus said, ‘if you love me, keep my commandments’ and no commandment of Jesus allows people to continue in any sin.Nor do they allow people to flaunt their alternative lifestyle and identify as a follower of Christ. If you remain in sin, you are not following Christ for he called people to repentance and to be born again.

Sorry LGBTQ people you are not Christian if you continue to practice your sin of homosexuality

 

Is Evolution A Religion?

Ham told The Christian Post last week that “God’s Word” is at battle with evolution, which he described as a religion to explain the origin of the universe.
Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/ken-hams-creation-museum-tv-ads-seek-to-give-biblical-answers-to-kids-questions-175213/#OoXjmZyl86vpfAZF.99

We do not believe that evolution is a religion and that Mr. Ham is wrong in describing it as such. Evolution takes a lot of faith but then so does driving a car or flying in an airplane, does the faith used in those areas of life make driving or flying a religion? Of course not. We find evolution to be part of the strong delusion that God promised to send in 2nd Thess. It is a scientific theory that has no hope of being verified in any way shape or form. This means that it is a false idea, a lie meant to deceive people and draw them away from the truth found in Genesis 1 & 2 as written in the Bible. God spoke and it was. There was no process or more than 7 24 hour days involved.

Ham has accused evolution-supporting secular personalities, like Bill Nye ‘The Science Guy,’ of trying to indoctrinate children by teaching them about evolution — something which Nye has also accused Ham of doing with Creationism.
Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/ken-hams-creation-museum-tv-ads-seek-to-give-biblical-answers-to-kids-questions-175213/#OoXjmZyl86vpfAZF.99

This is true. Evolutionists do try to indoctrinate children. If evolution were true they would not need a monopoly on the science classroom. Demanding a monopoly means they are indoctrinating not educating.

 

News In Brief

Just taking a look at different stories that have hit the news

#1. http://www.christianpost.com/news/david-platt-apologizes-for-division-caused-by-support-of-islamic-societys-right-to-build-mosque-175218/

David Platt, president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s International Mission Board, apologized Wednesday for the division caused by the organization’s decision to join an amicus curiae (friend of the court) brief to support a New Jersey Islamic society’s right to build a mosque.

We have no problem with this action as we think where would Christians be if the situation were reversed?  Wouldn’t they want help from others? Do unto others is a good verse for this issue and so is the thought that planting seeds come from doing good works, we may be opening up hearts to the gospel by doing nice things like this for unbelievers, including Muslims.his help is not supporting the Muslim faith nor saying it is correct but respecting the law of the land, freedom to practice one’s religion. Christians want the same freedom so they need to give it to other faiths, even though they are false, as well.

#2. http://www.christianpost.com/news/conservatives-stunned-by-devastating-blow-to-religious-liberty-as-court-rules-against-christian-florist-175205/

Conservatives ‘Stunned’ by ‘Devastating Blow’ to Religious Liberty as Court Rules Against Christian Florist

Why are conservatives stunned? Washington is a very liberal state and the court is very secular, what kind of result do conservatives expect? Everybody already knows that the minority of LGBTQ people enjoy unprecedented support and protection from the government, this decision is not a surprise, though it is sad to see. How about praying first that God would change the hearts of the people of Washington state so that more people are brought into the kingdom and God’s justice can prevail.

#3. http://www.christianpost.com/news/when-christian-schools-are-rocked-by-sex-scandal-174889/

When Christian Schools Are Rocked by Sex Scandal

To be honest, this article aid absolutely nothing of value on this subject. We will say that this problem is very easy to fall into and believers, especially Christian leaders, need to be extra careful not to allow themselves to be found in these situations. Protecting one’marriage and the reputation of the church is vital. DO NOT TAKE CHANCES, avoid these situations and take precautions.

#4. http://www.christianpost.com/news/pentecostal-church-counselor-safe-sex-is-ok-for-teens-who-cant-control-themselves-174875/

The Church of Pentecost in Ghana is clarifying its position on sex and marriage after one of its counselors suggested that sex is permissible for teenagers who can’t control themselves, as long as they use contraception.

Uhm…No it isn’t. We have to ask why do certain Christian people, who are in delicate influential positions,disagree with God on a regular basis? Why are they in those positions and why are not churches doing more to weed them out?

#5. http://www.christianpost.com/news/white-evangelicals-voting-for-trump-represents-a-crisis-in-the-church-jim-wallis-says-175156/

Exit polls showing that 81 percent of evangelical voters and a majority of white Christians voted for President Donald Trump in the 2016 election represents a “crisis in the Church” and shows that the Church is more racially divided than ever, the Rev. Jim Wallis has warned.

Wallis, who heads the progressive Christian social justice group Sojourners and is also a research fellow at Georgetown University’s Berkley Center for Religion, Peace, and World Affairs, told The Christian Post in an interview on Wednesday that evangelicals and Christians who voted for Trump are “responsible” for his presidency and any “racist” policies that might come out of the Trump administration.

We are tired of these attacks upon a man who has held office for only 1 month. It is ridiculous to expect him to perform perfectly or as his opponents want. If you examine H. Clinton closely you will see that their foundation was merely for influence peddling yet no one said a word when that foundation closed its doors recently. They had to as the Clintons lost access to the White House.There are many other sins of H. Clinton that are swept under the rug and all we can say about Trump and political leaders is– you who are without sin, cast the first stone.

#6. http://www.christianpost.com/news/ann-coulter-donald-trump-head-of-church-175214/

Best-selling conservative author Ann Coulter recently claimed that President Donald Trump is, in her opinion, “head of state” and now “head of church.”

No one has ever accused Ms. Coulter of being theologically sound. It is dangerous to elevate other humans to positions that challenge or place them above God. Humans are the servants of God thus when the servants do well, we praise God for that is who the servants obeyed.

 

Quotes From Billy Graham

The following quotes have been taken from his World Aflame book.

pg. 47-8 — And as Carl Henry says: In his desire to control the universe, man repeatedly puts himself in God’s place but the idea of God’s Son as a substitute in man’s place he dismisses as incredible nonsense

pg. 48 — From many universities come these ideas: First, man is only an animal; Second, existence is a chemical accident; Third, the struggle for survival has made man what he is; Fourth, morality and standards of conduct are derived only from a sociological context; Fifth, man lives in and for this world only and any further thought is unscientific.

pg. 51 — In a bull session at Harvard, a student observed: Does it not seem strange that millions should be spent trying to create life or to discover its origin? Is not our number one problem to care for the life we already have?

pg. 51 — Either man began nowhere and is looking for someplace to go or he began somewhere and has lost his way.

pg. 83 — There is a strong movement… to recast the Christian message in order to make it acceptable to modern man.

pg. 83 — Karl Barth…in a scathing denunciation of these demythologizers says… In trying to make Christianity plausible for skeptics they have succeeded only in making it meaningless.

pg. 88 — The inescapable implication of a counterfeit is that the real thing exists. No one ever counterfeited a seventy-five dollar bill. Every counterfeit bears witness to the reality of the currency it captures

pg. 127 — Ask the scientist and he cannot give an answer. I have asked a number of scientists questions concerning life after death an most of them say ‘we just do not know’.Science deals in formilas and test tubes. There is a spiritual world that science knows nothing about.

pg. 141 — At birth our sex is settled, the very frame of our body is already determined.

As to the second to last quote, all we can say is that scientists need to be evangelized not have their theories accepted. Science, especially secular science, does not know more than God. For the quotes from page 83, even today we have people trying to change the christian message to make it more attractive to unbelievers. IF you change God’s message then you are not bringing God’s message to the lost. Finally, the last quote reminds us that transgender issues are not a 21st century problem ut has existed for a long, long time. The gender one was born as is the gender they are, anything else is a product of deception.

 

A Word To Vegetarians/Vegans

We will use the word vegetarian here to include vegans and all other non-meat eaters.

Everyone knows you think your diet is superior to a meat-eating one; everyone knows you judge meat eaters and insult them; everyone knows you are rude to your hosts when you bring your own food to a dinner party  hosted by meat eaters. We have heard the vegetarian argument ad nauseam.

But there are a few points you need to consider which we hope will change your attitude. Yes, your attitude is terrible when it comes to your diet. First, when God gave the Israelites their divinely commanded diet he did not ban all meat products or animals. He allowed the Israelites to eat different kinds of beef and fish along with some other animals.

God told Peter in a vision about going to the Gentiles- ‘do not call unclean what I have cleansed’ This directive can also be applied to one’s food intake. What God has approved no one can call wrong, unclean or inferior.

Second, Jesus ate Kosher. This means that Jesus ate meat according to the laws set down for the Israelites by his father in heaven. We read about this in the Bible. Too often vegetarians think that they are greater than both God and Jesus and that they know better than them.  They think they can make a better diet than the one Jesus ate or God instituted. They can’t. It is not sin to eat meat nor is it less healthy as the Bible does not teach that one diet is greater than the other or that eating a certain way will extend their lives.

Third, When the Israelites were on their Exodus, they got tired of eating certain foods and complained . God fed them meat. He did not send a bunch of vegetable vendors to provide food for the wandering people instead he sent birds. If God had commanded that the Israelites could not eat meat, why would he help them sin by sending them meat?

Fourth, Vegetarians forget that God rejected Cain’s meatless offering.  Meat is a prime ingredient in making offerings to God for only meat contains the blood needed to meat God’s requirements for forgiveness of sins and other sacrifices.God never allowed for a vegetable substitute. The priests were allowed by God to eat part of the meat sacrificed to him. If God wanted his people to be meatless then he would not have provided that permission. If God approves of meat then no human can declare meat to be wrong or unhealthy.

Then to address a couple of our introductory remarks. The Bible tells us to eat what is placed in front of us. But we are not going to be strict here because there are a lot of foods placed in front of us that we just cannot get down or keep down. The point of this is that vegetarians need to learn that their diet is not divinely commanded and they will not sin if they break it. It is okay to eat meat and then go back on your diet when you are in your own home, etc. Since a vegetarian diet is not biblically commanded one is not disobeying God when they break it. There is no divine consequence if a vegetarian has to eat a little meat to be polite to their hosts.

Vegetarians are not greater than meat eaters. Nor are they perfect so stop breaking the command  ‘do not judge’. It is not a sin to eat meat nor does eating meat make a person inferior to vegetarians. The verses in the Bible talking about humbleness apply to vegetarians and how they view their diet.

Finally, get over yourselves. You are free to not eat meat if you so choose but you are not free to make other people go meatless. You have free choice as to what you will eat and how you will construct your diet so do meat eaters. You do not have the right to force your dietary rules upon others. nor make their decisions for them. Other people get to freely choose what they will eat. If you are going to be a zealot about your diet then stay away from meat eaters. There is no divine command to convert people to a vegetarian diet. If you sit at a table with meat eaters then keep your mouth closed about your diet and just enjoy the other person’s company and have a good discussion on anything else.

Vegetarians die from the same corruption, diseases and other causes of death just like meat eaters. Their diet does not extend their life nor protects them from dying. No matter what you eat, death comes eventually so chill out and take it down a few notches because you are not being biblical when you give your diet divine status or make it superior to the teaching of the bible.

 

A Word About Liberals

In their hurry to protest immigration policies Liberals and others seem to have forgotten that there is a difference between legal and illegal immigration. Legal immigrants follow the rules, the illegal ones try to find some way around following the rules. But the Liberals have been altering God’s standards of right and wrong, morality and immorality, good and evil for so long they have lost sight of what is actually right, wrong, good, evil moral and immoral. Their opposition to deporting those who have skirted the rules also show that they have no respect for those immigrants who have successfully obeyed the regulations governing their move from their home country to America.

Why have rules if some of the American people toss them our for whatever reason they have? It is not fair to make some people follow the rules and others get a free pass, it is also not just.  Now mercy can be applied to this issue, that is not the problem but mercy needs to be wielded wisely so that those who do follow all the rules do not get resentful or end up not caring about any other rule and so on. Mercy is not a blanket policy. Forgiveness can be applied here but only if the illegal immigrants are truly sorry for their violating the rules of the land they entered but forgiveness does not necessarily mean they will not be deported for their crime.

Love can also be applicable but love is not blind nor does it avoid discipline for violators of the rules. Spare the rod spoil the child, love disciplines correctly even immigrants. The Liberals need to learn that they must uphold the laws of their land if they want a safe and secure society. They cannot change the rules just to because they want to or because someone has stayed so long in the country and had a family. The rules must be applied equally to all and they must remember all those who obeyed the laws when the successfully immigrated. To do otherwise is wrong.

 
 
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