Beth Moore on Paige Patterson Controversy: ‘Broken System’ Will Not Mend If Men Refuse to Listen
We know where we stand. We believe God and seek to teach his word correctly. BUT we may have, if we are lucky, 250 or so followers and a few extra readers. We do not have the amount of followers or influence that Ms. Moore has. What we say may not matter to this situation either. We are not famous, we do not get any support and we are lucky to continue posting.
But the above title brings both sadness and anger to our minds. Anger that women think they can run the church better than God and sadness for the same reason. As we have read so many articles on this issue, we noticed that Ms. Moore, Ms. Roys and those that opposed Dr. Patterson and others who feel the same way have left out of the discussion the following passage of scripture:
In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, 2 as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior. 3 Your adornment must not be merely external—braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses; 4 but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God. 5 For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands; 6 just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear. (1 Peter 3 NASB)
These women make their attacks on prominent men and they would attack us if they knew we existed or were famous. But we digress. This passage is quite clear in its instruction to women.We do not see this gentle and quiet spirit in Ms. Moore or Ms. Roys or other women who want the church to be made after their own image.
They do not seem to be wanting to have church the way God wants it conducted. We do not see these women calling on men to obey God’s instruction. All of their arguments have been about their own desires. Not one word has been said by these women about God’s desires. Then their physical example has only reinforced this point. They will attack any man, no matter his position, if that man obeys God over them or they do not like his words.
You will notice that not one of these women produced a real passage of scripture supporting their agenda. How can they? None exists. They are also lucky to be living in the modern age as God certainly punished Miriam and Aaron for going against Moses’ leadership. Maybe he will punish these ladies, hard to say. It is certain that they think they know how the church should be run better than God does. It is sad to see take place. They are a bad testimony to the world and a bad example.
Prominent evangelist Beth Moore, founder of Living Proof Ministries, has responded to the resignation of Paige Patterson as Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary president, by telling men that the “broken system” will not change if they keep refusing to listen to what women have to say.
We heard this a lot when we taught in South Korea. Whenever the Native English Teacher saw something they did not like, they cried that the Korean school system was broken. All their whining did was demonstrate that their cries really meant- The Koreans are not doing it my way so the Koreans are wrong. The same attitude applies to this situation.
Some women are crying that men are not doing church their way so the men and the church are wrong. Also, these women are saying that God and his system are broken. God’s system is not broken. What is wrong is that both men and women refuse to obey God’s instructions and sin has and is doing its destructive work in the church.
Unfortunately for these women, God did not write one Bible for the ancient church and one for the modern church. The words in 1 Peter are applicable today as they were when Peter first wrote them. They do not get to divorce their husbands if abuse occurs in the church. Then to address the final line, it is not men who are refusing to listen to women. Men have often listened to women over God and instructions.
It is the women who are refusing to listen to godly men and God that creates the trouble. Their disobedience is a major part of the problem. Of course, men who do not listen to God also contribute to the situation in the church today. One of the biggest problems in this situation are all those busybodies who stick their noses in a marriage and try to dictate to one spouse or the other what they should do. Often that bad advice is not biblical and should not be spoken.
In comments posted on Twitter Thursday, as part of a conversation with Kyle J. Howard, a biblical counselor and Southern Baptist Theological Seminary student, Moore said she agrees and is “grateful” for the first steps taken by the seminary to replace Patterson. She added that the safety of women and girls should be the “top priority and urgency” in the entire process.
What about God’s will? Does he not count here? Shouldn’t his ways be the top priority of a theological school and church? Shouldn’t the truth be taught to all? What we see in those words is complete selfishness. The man does not matter, only the women matter and that is a very narrow and sinful point of view.
At the same time, she warned that “this broken system will not mend if men are simply and well-meaningly trained to view women as damsels in distress” that they must protect.
“This ideology still produces Supermen. Not healthy brothers,” she warned.
Sorry but her way does not produce spiritual women but rebellious, disrespectful, and disobedient females. Again, though we see subjectiveness coming through her point of view. The training men are to get has to meet her subjective ideas and not God’s. She does not go to one scripture passage to support her point. so men are to be made after her ideas and not to be made after God’s. This is very dangerous ground she is walking on.
Moore said that protecting and defending is good, but what is needed for a healthy relationship in a family is “mutual respect.”
“Don’t save us, then refuse to listen to what we have to say. Don’t deliver us, then dismiss us. Don’t show us the way, then shoo us away. Work with us. Serve with us. See what value we have.”
They have not done this with Dr. Patterson or other men who agree with him. Her words mean nothing. They sought to remove someone who told them something they did not want to hear. They did not work with anyone, especially men,but made demands, wrote articles against these men and not once sought God to lead them to the truth. All they have said and done is shown that they have no spiritual value.
When we look closely at her actions and words plus the words of Ms. Roys and other women in this issue, we see that they do not practice what they are preaching. They will not listen to God and they think they are better than men and God.
In an open letter to Christian brothers, she wrote that while she had chosen to accept “the peculiarities accompanying female leadership in a conservative Christian world,” feeling that “they were rooted in deep convictions based on passages from 1 Timothy 2 and 1 Corinthians 14,” she later realized amid attitudes that “smacked of misogyny” and “objectification” that “Scripture was not the reason for the colossal disregard and disrespect of women among many of these men.”
We talked about that open letter. Her conclusions were in error, misleading and distorted. There can be no listening to women when they want to disobey God and lead their men to sin. When David said walk not in the counsel of the ungodly, he did not leave women, wives and daughters out of that instruction. Women if you want to be listened to, then you got to be on the right path with God, humble and submit to his instructions.
Men in general, your husbands and your sons may not always be right but biblical instructions did not provide that escape clause so you can ignore scriptural instructions. You are to do good to those who supposedly did evil to you, you are to pray for them and not return evil for evil. These are other biblical passages absent from the treatment of Dr. Patterson and this discussion. We do not see these women following one thing God has said to do.
The system may be broken in Ms. Moore’s eyes but the beams in her eyes block her vision of hers, Ms. Roys, and the other women’s actions and words in this issue. In other words, the system is only broken to those who disobey biblical instruction in handling different church issues including this one.