We have seen a response to the first part of this discussion. Aside from the distortion and misrepresentations of our point, everything we said is true. Here are more details to be aware of before you head off into a discussion with unbelievers
#1. I am fully persuaded that the Christian God is a myth, Jesus is a man who lived and died, and the central claims of Christianity are false. I have weighed these things in the balance and found them wanting.
Know your audience. This is one reason we have stopped talking to many unbelievers we encounter. As much as they say they want to discuss, you can tell by their words that their minds are made up and they will not listen to anything, not even real evidence.
BG (the quotes come from his website) is the same as many atheists who upon the discovery of the ark would still find some way to discredit the discovery and claim it was not THE ark. That is one reason we have not supported any Ark searches or even AIG’s Ark Encounter.
No matter the physical evidence you provide, they will find some way to ignore it and say it is not evidence. He is making that statement despite the many NON-Christian ancient writers who wrote about Jesus.
Even Josephus wrote about Jesus and the way unbelievers get around those words is that they call them a forgery, (without evidence to support their claim). This type of opposition is something you have to be prepared to face and learn how to counter.
The unbelievers’ biggest defense is a total rejection of everything that supports the Biblical record. As we have written several times, even the late Phillip Davies would close his eyes when presented with actual physical evidence and chant ‘It did not happen’.
This is why the Bible says not to cast pearls before swine. The atheists and other unbelievers will trample all the real evidence under their feet. Learn to identify these people and only present a gospel message to them. Don’t get involved in a discussion with them as they may harm your faith.
#2. If I want answers to religious questions, I seek out experts, not hateful, mean-spirited, argumentative Evangelical preachers.
In other words, they will cherry-pick the people they will talk to just so they can avoid the truth. This is the same complaint we had with Bill Mahr’s movie Religiosity. He cherry-picked the type of believers he would video tape making sure they fit the narrative he wanted to present.
Then he ignored every true Christian who would end up ruining his narrative by showing him that God does exist and is who he said he is. Weh we were on his discussion forum, and we think we were talking to Mr. Mahr himself, we were banned once he saw the validity of our argument and that he had no foundation to stand on.
Atheists do not want to hear the truth, they only want to hear what they want to listen to (in most cases). Their name-calling does not help their case but it does help you identify whom you should talk to. They also lose all credibility when they resort to name-calling and insults as well as disrespecting the other person and their faith.
#3. Evangelicals,… think if they quote a Bible verse, they have provided evidence for their claim. This is not true. Bible verses are claims, not evidence.
Actually, quoting Bible verses is evidence. The Bible is a historical document and it is often the only document that records these events. Quoting the Bible is the same as quoting any other history archaeologist or even scientist by the atheist.
If quoting the Bible is just quoting claims so are the quotes from Hawkins, Josephus, and other non-Christian writers. Their words are at the same level. and are not evidence. But there is a difference between quoting the Bible and quoting a human author.
God said his word will not return to him void, so it pays to quote scripture to those who do not believe. It is planting seeds in the unbeliever when you wield scriptures correctly. Plus, the Christians cannot be defenseless in their part of the discussion.
Their source is the Bible, a historical as well as divine work that carries the truth with it. There are NO historical or archaeological documents that disprove the biblical record. If there were they would be broadcast far and wide.
In other words, when you go with the truth, the unbeliever has no defense or strategy for attack. The Bible says they cannot do anything against the truth. You start following the rule set down by unbelievers, and then you give them points to attack you and your arguments.
One of the greatest attacks they will do when you make this change is criticize you for not following the rules of the God you say you believe. Don’t fall for this trap.
#4. Evangelicals claim Jesus was born of a virgin, and give several Bible verses (which they grossly misinterpret) to justify their claim. However, these verses are not evidence of the virgin birth.
Yes, they are evidence and one good reason for this is that no secular record has this information. It is not a claim for if it was, those verses would be written differently. The charge of gross misinterpretation happens all the time when the unbeliever refuses to accept the true translations.
They want the verses translated in a way that will help their point of view and not in the way that will make them have to deal with the truth. Plus, how are you going to prove a virgin birth?
This is the weakness of the demands of atheists. They point to events that require one to follow God’s rules, not theirs. The unbeliever thinks they are in charge and what they say goes. That is a grave mistake on their part.
This is God’s kingdom, God’s creation, and God’s work and it is God’s rules that everyone has to follow, not the secular ones. When it comes to events like the virgin birth, the Flood, Creation, and the sun standing still, God’s rule is you have to have faith.
Without faith, you cannot please God for you are doubting his word. If God’s word is not good enough for you, then please do not call yourself a Christian. You cannot be truly a Christian if you call God a liar and take unbelievers’ words over the Bible.
God’s rule is that faith is the largest and most important part of the equation. We will never get so much physical evidence that will ruin what pleases God. How can one be saved if they do not use faith for salvation and Christ’s sacrifice and divinity?
Cherry-picking is not using faith but still calling god a liar in certain parts of the Bible. Do not bring science into these events as science cannot do a thing to disprove the Bible nor study the supernatural.
It has no authority over God or his words. Given the fact that it is run by unbelievers, you will never get the truth if you listen to science on many issues.
#5. When I ask for “evidence,” I am asking for more than proof texts. I am more than happy to talk about the Bible, but when Evangelicals appeal to the Bible as the sole source of evidence for their claims, I am going to call foul.
Of course, he will cry foul. That is because one, believers are not using proof texts, and two, they are not abiding by his rules but God’s. It is not the believer or God who humbles themselves to the unbeliever. It is the unbeliever who needs to humble themselves before God.
We do not play by the unbeliever’s rules, we play by God’s rules even if the unbeliever cries foul. They are not in charge of the unbeliever, not their supervisors, and so on, the unbeliever has no say in what believers do in discussions.
The believer follows God’s rules in all discussions. Case in point for all of what we have said:
#6. First, there is no evidence that the Bible is anything other than a fallible, errant, contradictory ancient compilation of religious writings. Believing the Bible is God’s inerrant, infallible words is a faith claim, one for which Evangelicals can provide no evidence apart from saying “I believe it to be true.” Second, the central claims of Christianity rest on a foundation of faith — a faith I do not have. I refuse to ignore evidence and facts and just faith-it.
He has made it quite clear that he will not listen to the truth nor follow the rules other than his own. There is physical evidence to prove the Bible to be infallible and divinely written but he will not accept that evidence.
One of those pieces of evidence is that the ancient Israelites did not have a reputation for copying. That false accusation came from those bible scholars who do not believe God, do not believe the Bible, and do not want the Bible to be true.
That false reputation of copying did not come from real, physical, ancient evidence. It is just a claim made by unbelievers in positions of influence. The real copyists were the Old Babylonians and you can read the book Mesopotamia and the Bible by Chavalas and YOunger Jr., to get that information.
Also, the denial of a supernatural creation, Flood, and other biblical events is also not based on any physical evidence. It is all based on pure denial with nothing supporting it. Science has not proven none of those events took place. All science has done is create a false alternative.
The atheists and other unbelievers can only say “I believe it to be true’ when they accept the theories of evolution and the Big Bang. There has been no physical evidence proving either of those two theories true. What they claim about these two theories is just that- claims.
They have no physical evidence proving things developed or came into existence like the scientists say. it is all claims.
#7. Ninety-nine percent of the emails and messages I receive from Evangelical preachers and apologists are filled with Bible verses and regurgitated arguments and claims. No new arguments, no new claims, just the same old shit, new day.
Why would there be new information, new arguments, or different bible verses? The truth does not change which means the information he will receive from believers will never change. There is no new information, no new revelations, no new bible verses to send his or other atheists way.
Everything that took place is in the Bible and nothing will change the truth. Just so you know, science and archaeology do not bring new information.
The secular arms of those research fields still preach that evolution is true and the Big Bang took place. All their experiments are designed to make the same claim. There is no new information brought by science to support those false theories.
But those research fields keep proving the Bible is true through many explorations and experiments. Two genders is one of those results that have been proven the Bible true. As well as science has proven that there was and is only one human race.
Science cannot prove evolution or the Big Bang true because those are events that never took place.
#8. I spent 20,000 hours reading and studying the Bible. I preached over 4,000 sermons. I have read countless theological tomes. I am confident that I have a comprehensive understanding of Christianity
That does not prove anything when you out and out deny everything you have read, preached about, and studied. He should know by all that research that there is no new information and never will be. If he refuses to use faith then he will never repent of his sins.
Even being presented with legitimate physical evidence requires faith to make the decision to accept Christ as their savior. You will never escape the faith requirement. That is why you need to know your audience. Stop wasting time with those who refuse to follow God’s rules and will trash everything you say.
If you still want to try, then spend time in your prayer closet and ask God to prepare their hearts to receive and accept the truth. Do not contact people like BG without doing that first. You are not the one doing the converting, God is so get him involved and listen to him if he says do not talk to that person.
If you don’t, all you will get is your arguments trampled under the feet of the atheist who refuses to believe.
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