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Misleading Advice

01 Mar

In this post we are going to address two posts found over at Susan Cottrell’s website. Her words to and about homosexuals, and we may stop using the acronym LGBTQ because those people are all homosexual in nature, are very misleading and non-biblical.

#1. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/freedhearts/2016/02/22/lgbtq-god-is-not-mad-at-you-and-never-has-been/

God is not mad at you. God is not disappointed in you. Not a single little tiny bit!

People who do not know God and who ignore what God says about homosexuality and sin should really not speak for him. They are lying to those they are speaking to and giving them false hope and useless comfort. God does not like homosexual behavior and has stated as much throughout the Bible, from calling their acts an abomination and unnatural to the fact that they will NOT enter heaven.

Such wording does not indicate that God is pleased with their choices and sinful behavior.

After all, God created you the way you are.

And no, God did not create them homosexual, Bi, transgender, or even queer. Those sexual orientations are perversions of what God did not an expression of it. God made them ‘male and female’ not confused about their personal identities. That author ignores the fact that evil exists and works on humans to confuse them about themselves and how they were made. Their sexual alternative is not from God but from evil.

I mean that God harbors no ill will or anger or even disappointment at you—because that is not how God works. That’s just not how any of this works.

Again people who do not know God or understand his words should not speak for him. The Bible disagrees with that quote. While she acknowledges this fact a few sentences later, she brushes this thought aside to make those who chose alternative paths feel good.

o how does it all work?

Very simply. God invites you into a personal relationship—a loving relationship… and then you walk through the rest of your life together, as you would with a real, trusted and beloved friend. God will guide you personally and individually because God knows the Wild Forest path very well—thank God for that

For some reason she misses or leaves out a very important step– repentance from sin. Why she does this is typical of those who do not want to accept the fact that their choices, their sexual or identity orientations are wrong. They want everyone to be right and in line with God’s but that is impossible for the homosexual community because there is a thing called sin and their sexual or identity orientation belongs in that category. These people need to be told the truth, not given false hope by those who do not know God or are going to hell themselves.

The Bible itself shows us that Jesus gets angry at exactly one group of people… who it is? Religious leaders who use God as a weapon to oppress powerless people! That’s it.

That is not it nor is it all. Jesus told Nicodemus that to enter heaven one must be born again, that they must give up sin to enter God’s kingdom. Jesus may not have spewed anger at the general population like he did the religious leaders but that is because the religious leaders failed in their duties and misled the people. Of course, she ignores the fact that Jesus got angry at the money changers for their sins. Money changers were common people not religious leaders.

The whole post is one paragraph of bad advice and information after another. That author does not know what she is talking about and she should not be addressing any religious subject. She is as bad as those religious leaders whom Jesus got angry at. She is misleading and misinforming people about God and his attitude towards those that continue to sin.

She misrepresents both God and Jesus and that is as wrong as the money changers who made the temple a den of thieves.

#2. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/freedhearts/2016/02/16/christians-you-do-not-have-permission-to-condemn-lgbt/

Christians, You Do NOT Have Permission to Condemn LGBT

This is the title to her article and while she is correct here, believers do not have the right to condemn homosexuals, she is wrong about what the word condemns actually means and refers to. While Christians cannot do God’s job, we are allowed to identify sin and tell others that they are in error. Such behavior is not condemning but informing and those are two very completely different actions and attitudes.

If we see someone drowning and we shout to them, ‘hey you are going to drown if you don’t stop swimming that way’ is that condemning the swimmer or informing them of their plight? The distortion and misapplication of biblical verses by people like Ms. Cottrell does not help in this issue but makes matters worse not better. The misuse of scripture only clouds the issue not provide a clear view of right and wrong, good and evil, morality and immorality, sin and sinlessness. We do not help people by covering up their sins and telling them that it is God, the Bible or Christians who are wrong and not them.

Why do you feel compelled to add your assessment of someone’s “lifestyle” (which you clearly have no understanding about—especially if you use the word “lifestyle”)

Because the Bible tells us to identify sin and sinners and how we are to react to both. We do not help our Christian lives by calling sin good and making everyone the same. God warns about that act and we need to obey God not the advocates for homosexuals and the rest of their community.it is she, not Christians, who has no understanding about that alternative lifestyle. Christians know it quite well and that it is sin. Only those who side with evil deny that identification.

But my question is for you. Why do you feel the need to mention your opinion on this?

First, it is God’s opinion and we have been instructed to tell others to repent of their sins, even if they feel they are not sinning. Second, we are allowed to express our opinions just like anyone else. We are allowed to have views on the issue even if the advocates for those alternative living people do not like it. Third, people need to be warned that they are in danger of going to hell and need to take steps to escape that punishment.

Let me put it another way: Do you sit at the dining table with your friend and say, “I love you, and God loves you… but I think you’ve had quite enough pie—the Bible is very clear about being overfed.”

She may not believe it but guess what, that does happen. Some people call it an intervention now others like to address it as a sin of gluttony.

You may believe you are “helping” by “speaking the ‘truth’ in love”—all trigger words, by the way—so let me say something very clearly: you’re not helping.You are hurting, more profoundly than you have any idea when you utter those words, as if they are anything more than the false teaching and party line Christians have been repeating and repeating and repeating.

I am sorry but if their feelings are hurt by being told the truth, then so be it. Better that they know the truth than to live following a lie. Since we are to keep sin from our lives, homes and churches, we do have the right to speak about how their sin is not accepted in those places. Just because the homosexual community and their advocates deny that those lifestyles are sin, doesn’t make it so.

Open your eyes and you will see the tragic results of this message in the lives of people who just so happen to be LGBTQ, especially the youth.

While I will admit many Christians do not handle this issue well, especially when it pertains to their own children, those misguided actions do not mean we blindly accept the sin or allow the sin into places it is not to go. We do not disobey God because our children have decided to reject what God says.

Here’s something Jesus DID say. “If you give even a cup of cold water to one of the least of my followers, you will surely be rewarded.” Matthew 10:42.

She is good at using scripture as a sledge-hammer on Christians while ignoring verses from the same book that tell her that homosexuality and other alternatives are sin and those who opt to practice them need to repent of their sins. For some reason her head just does not allow her to see the hypocrisy and irony of her harassing believers, those who know what all the Bible says on the issue.

Before she attacks believers and uses Bible verses to pronounce them guilty, she needs to accept all the verses of the Bible and tell her homosexual friends that they need to repent of their pervert sexual alternatives. If she doesn’t, she is just like those she accuses.

Church, stop hurting people.

This is not her call as she is not in charge of the church. Christ is and the people of the church follow Christ not her. She should realize that the church is not perfect and that many inside will disobey God just like she is doing with her defense of those who practice sinful sexual alternatives. To put it in secular terms she is the pot calling the kettle black.

To put it in biblical terms, she needs to remove the beams from her own eyes before trying to remove the specks from other peoples’ eyes.if she wants the church to follow scripture, then she needs to learn to follow all the scriptures not just the verses she likes.

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24 responses to “Misleading Advice

  1. mygirlmyworld

    March 1, 2016 at 6:25 am

    Question…if sin is sin in God’s eyes? If you’ve broken one commandment, you’ve broken them all?…what’s the difference between a liar that’s repented but still struggles with lying and a homosexual that’s repented but still struggles with homosexual desires? I’m a born again believer but I struggle with this question and wondered what your thoughts would be after reading your article.

     
    • theologyarchaeology

      March 1, 2016 at 6:44 am

      The difference is: when on struggles they are not actively and wilfully practicing sin. They are trying to get free of that and the struggle shows that they need to do more spiritual work to be totally free from evil’s grasp. if a person doesn’t care if they lie or not, and practices lying willfully then they will not struggle because they are not trying to be free from that sin.

      The same applies to the repentant homosexual. Remember evil doe snot let go of its captives without a fight at times. The struggle just means more spiritual work is needed to be totally free of the sin. A person who wants to practice homosexuality has no struggle.

      Check your desires and see if they have completely let go of the sin and the desire to commit that sin.

       
    • theologyarchaeology

      March 1, 2016 at 10:35 am

      as a p.s. the above post is not talking about those who struggle but those who do not give up their sin and pursue a sinful lifestyle.

       
  2. darthtimon

    March 1, 2016 at 9:12 am

    You are correct in some respects – people are allowed opinions and have the right to express those opinions. It is equally the right of those who disagree to ignore or challenge those opinions.

    Those of the homosexual nature can argue, quite rightly, that they don’t want religious interference in their lives. They didn’t ask for it or invite it.

    You believe you have a God-given duty to inform homosexuals they are sinning. What would your reaction be to someone trying to preach to you why you should convert to another belief and that you were living sinfully?

    It’s my view that we should not be interfering in other people’s lives unless their actions do harm to others. The desire to spread religious mandates has led to some of the worst conflicts the world has ever seen – when there is utterly resolute belief, combined with the resolute mandate to spread that belief, irrespective of what the other side may believe, you have situations like the Troubles in Northern Ireland, the ongoing hostilities in Kashmir and the violence in Palestine (to say nothing of ISIS). If we treated our relationship with God as just that – a relationship – and didn’t worry so much about what others were doing (least of all in the privacy of their own homes), I believe the world would be a better place for it.

     
    • theologyarchaeology

      March 1, 2016 at 10:38 am

      But then those homosexuals should not be forcing their preference down everyone else’s throats either. They should not be taking people to court for not serving them or do other negatives things to those who do not accept their alternative ways.

      My reaction is the same–no thank you.i do not stop them from preaching or following their beliefs nor do I take them to court over minute problems when the solution is to say thank you and move on to the next business who may fill their request.

      You are wrong there. Religions do not start war, sin does.

       
      • darthtimon

        March 1, 2016 at 12:14 pm

        What are homosexuals forcing upon others exactly? The expectation to be treated without prejudice and without religious interference in their lives? A public business in a secular environment should not be using personal beliefs to deny customers – it is akin to not serving someone owing to the colour of their skin.

        For centuries homosexuals have been persecuted and even killed in the name of religion, and religious reasoning can and does deny them employment (and worse) in some parts of the world. I don’t doubt that some homosexuals can get aggressive, and display prejudices of their own, but the prevailing trend is one of persecution from religion directed towards homosexuals.

        Sin is a religious concept. If sin is starting wars, then by extension, religion does.

         
        • theologyarchaeology

          March 1, 2016 at 12:53 pm

          Obviously you consider homosexuality to be normal and acceptable. it is neither yet God will forgive and make them new creatures if it isn’t too late.

          Persecution happens to all people, stop whining.While some Christians are misguided in their treatment, those acts do not justify homosexuality or make it right an dnot sin.

          No sin is a reality not a concept. Religions do not start war, people’s own sin natures leads them to commit acts of aggressions. Your logic is very flawed.

           
          • darthtimon

            March 1, 2016 at 2:56 pm

            Your attitude betrays you. You have glossed over the historical, sustained and current persecution of homosexuals by religion and even tried to wave it away.

            I am reminded of one of Christianity’s most famous phrases – ‘hate the sin, love the sinner’. This is very much not in evidence throughout history and indeed, in the attitudes and rhetoric that comes out of conservative corners of certain countries (the USA being a prime example). It is unjustified to discriminate against someone, in a public business or environment, and to hide behind religious beliefs in an attempt to justify it is unacceptable. To try and equate the wish of homosexuals to see an end to this sort of behaviour through court cases with the ongoing efforts to deny gays various rights all over the world (and indeed, to wave away their persecution with ‘stop whining’) is to try and force a horribly skewed view of the situation.

            Your final point is merely repeating what you had to say in your previous post – and it does not address my point. Sin as a concept arose from religion.

             
  3. theologyarchaeology

    March 1, 2016 at 9:05 pm

    No haven’t done that, just pointed out that homosexuals are not the only people who have been persecuted. Your point depends upon how you define the word persecuted as Christians have been truly persecuted while a lot of the treatment, in the OT, of the homosexual was by divine command.

    While many Christians throughout history have chosen to follow the OT over the New in their treatment of homosexuals, there is still a divine command to not let sin and the unrepentant sinner into places of the church.

    Sin is not a religious concept, it is a divine revelation. Whether you accept its reality or not, doesn’t change the fact that sin exists, and that certain activities are sinful, Waving away the sin nature of homosexuality does not change its status.

    If the homosexual wants a change of behavior in others, they should stop practicing the same behavior. Case in point, instead of suing bakers and other businesses and forcing them to fulfill their requests, the homosexual should simply say thank you and move on to the next business to be served. The ‘persecution’ of those who disagree with the homosexual concept is no better than the persecution homosexuals claim they receive.

    You also have to provide some divine edict that homosexuality is okay and there are none. Historically nothing supports the demands and wishes of the homosexual community. And no, sin did not rise from religion, right and wrong has almost always existed and would exist if no religion existed. All you are trying to do is wish that fact away.

     
    • darthtimon

      March 1, 2016 at 10:30 pm

      You have indeed glossed over the persecution of homosexuals by religion and are now trying to sugarcoat it under the guises of divine command. It is the ‘divine command’ (and whether you care to acknowledge it or not, the divine is also a religious idea) of various religions to spread their ways, often without regard for other beliefs that may already be present (Holy Wars and the Crusades come to mind as good examples of how organised religion and righteous attitudes have directly contributed toward some of the ugliest chapters in human history).

      You also once again equate the suing of public businesses with the ongoing discrimination that allows businesses to dismiss employees whom they discover are gay, and to deny them employment in the first place. There is a considerable difference in scale and scope here, and once again I find myself compelled to repeat the ‘love the sinner, hate the sin’ saying. A public business that has made a commitment to abide by the laws of the land is clearly not a church and has no justification for discriminating against customers.

      No one is under any kind of compulsion to provide a divine edict if they do not believe in God. Many homosexuals obviously don’t, and wish to not have religious interference in their lives. That is something denied to them when they are denied various rights under various laws designed to impose religious beliefs and values upon others.

      Right and wrong would exist without religion, but sin would not – sin would not exist as a concept without religion. If there was no God to declare certain behaviour sinful, as per religious books like the Bible, there would not be the concept of sin as we understand it today. There would no attempts to justify discriminatory policies on the basis of sin, and it would be become that much harder to justify them full stop.

       
      • theologyarchaeology

        March 1, 2016 at 11:23 pm

        Your hypocrisy is showing. You cannot excuse bad acts of homosexuals while blaming others for committing bad acts against them. Your reclassification of my words won’t work either. You really do not understand anything about religion and the fact that religion did not start any wars. Your failure to go beyond the superficial is telling.

        Convicts have a saying: if you cannot do the time do not do the crime. If you cannot pay the price for being a homosexual then stop practicing homosexuality. Homosexuality is sin, wrong, abnormal, not right, whether you agree with that designation or not, and you will be treated accordingly.

        Sin exists because people disobey God, right and wrong, sin, morality etc., would not exist if God did not exist. Since God exists and he makes the rules, then homosexuality is wrong and not deserving of being treated in an honorable fashion.

        The correct behavior to treat homosexuals is to feed them if they are truly hungry, help them out when they are in trouble and similar acts of kindness BUT at no time do those acts mean that homosexuality is good, normal, not sin, wrong and so on. That preference cannot be accepted, supported , nor included in the church. God declared it an abomination and that is the right designation for that preference.

        No one is justifying discrimination here. Biblical instructions are clear on this issue. But the homosexual has to understand that love does not mean blind acceptance of their perverted choice. Love also means being told that you are wrong and in sin.

         
  4. darthtimon

    March 2, 2016 at 7:53 am

    I don’t excuse ‘bad acts’ from homosexuals. I don’t try to dismiss discriminatory behaviour via my beliefs either, which I’m afraid is what you’re doing.

    For example, you are now equating homosexuals with criminals. You are implying they should be treated as such. You are suggesting you should have every right to throw your beliefs in their faces, but you are complaining about gays suing bakeries to get equal treatment out of a public business.

    Whether you find it acceptable or not, the Western world contains laws and rules to prevent people from forcing their religious beliefs upon others. If you cannot see past the act to see the person, whom you are hurting by telling them they are abnormal and not right… Well, you can’t expect to do that to a person and not have them resist. When historically homosexuals have been put to death for a fundamental part of who they are, you can hardly blame them for not wanting religious involvement in their lives.

    As for God’s existence, that’s a whole different debate, but sin is a religious concept, no matter what twists are placed upon it, and religion has most definitely been responsible for a lot of ills and wars over the centuries.

     
    • theologyarchaeology

      March 4, 2016 at 2:09 am

      I am not dismissing anything because the concept of discrimination is very subjective and it really cannot be applied to religious beliefs. The idea of discrimination has secular roots and seeks to undermine biblical teaching.

      Never said any such thing a please stop reading your thoughts into my word. You do grasp the concept of examples or comparisons do you? Homosexuals have chosen an abnormal way of life and they need to expect to be treated as such instead forcing everyone to accept the as normal. The LBGT preference is not normal nor acceptable.

      You are misguided about western laws.

      You are wrong about the last paragraph as you meant o distort the truth and reality about homosexuality and try to make it good when it is nowhere close t being good or acceptable to God.

       
      • darthtimon

        March 4, 2016 at 9:23 am

        Of course the concept of discrimination can apply to religious beliefs. People use religion to justify discriminatory stances all the time (case in point, gay rights). The minute religious arguments are brought in to argue why certain groups cannot do this or go there, it’s a form of discrimination. There is a reason religious beliefs are not (or should not be) involved with state affairs. They give people the opportunity to impose their beliefs upon everyone else, which runs contrary to important values like freedom.

        You keep calling homosexuals abnormal. You keep saying they need to be treated as such. Your previous post can very much be interpreted as equating them with convicts (why else would you make the comparison to them in the first place?). Is this how you view them in your mind? Is that comparison fair to you?

        You keep saying that homosexuals have chosen to live an ‘abnormal’ life. Quite aside from the evidence that suggests homosexuality exists in nature, do you believe that choosing a life of crime (the wilful act of harming others) equates to two people who love each other wanting to live their lives free from outside interference?

        It’s my belief that this conversation has run its course. I don’t believe you are likely to look at things differently and you are certainly not about to change my perspective on this. With that in mind, I bid you good day.

         
        • theologyarchaeology

          March 5, 2016 at 3:26 am

          No they can’t because then you would be placing subjective, fallible sinful human ideas & concepts over God’s divine words and that would lead people to both erroneous actions and disobedience to God.

          The rest of that paragraph is just wrong n your part as you would be doing the very thing yo are against– imposing your views & beliefs on groups of people who disagree with you. You obviously have no concept of freedom for you are saying only your way is freedom and that is heresy and wrong.

          Don’t interpret for then you would be placing your ideas on my words; ideas I never spoke of.

          Homosexuality does NOT exist in nature but is read into certain acts by homosexuals to justify their choice to practice abnormal behavior. Oh and I didn’t call it abnormal, God did, so stop trying to make this a human only discussion.

          Of course I am not going to look at things differently, I am not wrong here, you are. It is you who is in grave error and need to change. I side with God who sets the rules.

           
          • darthtimon

            March 5, 2016 at 7:46 am

            There is a lot of irony here. I would love to know how precisely I am imposing my beliefs upon you. You are stating (and repeatedly stated) that homosexuality is abnormal and it is hardly my fault that you brought up convicts and criminals into the discussion. I have never said (nor attempted to say) you cannot believe whatever you want – nor do I seek to impose my values upon anyone. However, when you tell me I am in error because of God, that is a direct effort to impose your religious beliefs upon ME. You are even going as far as to tell me I need to change – so who is trying to force their values upon who?

             
  5. theologyarchaeology

    March 7, 2016 at 2:20 am

    I brought up an example to illustrate a point, I cannot help it if you do not grasp the concept of the purpose of an example.

    Again your charge of imposing beliefs are misguided, wrong and hypocritical. Bringing the source for the status of homosexuals into the conversation is not imposing one’ s beliefs on the other person but keeping the discussion in the proper perspective.

    You have the wrong idea about what others do and put your ideas upon their words and actions. telling you that you are wrong is not imposing anything but informing you of your dangerous situation.

    You like to distort discussions and fail to be honest about what others are doing and saying.

     
    • darthtimon

      March 7, 2016 at 10:37 am

      I am not distorting anything. By bringing up Biblical opinions of homosexuals and suggesting they should be treated in accordance with God’s commands and will IS imposing a belief system upon those who may not agree with it. You have repeatedly referred to homosexuals as ‘abnormal’ and that they should be treated as such, as per God’s will. How is this NOT imposing a belief?

      If you live in a secular country then you should accept that people have freedom not only to follow religious beliefs, but the freedom to NOT follow them and to be free from having someone else’s beliefs interfere with their lives. When someone uses their personal beliefs to refuse to fulfil their obligations in a public business (bound by laws), they are imposing their religious beliefs upon that customer (‘I’ll serve you, as long as your values are the same as mine, otherwise my personal beliefs matter more than your rights’, is basically what’s happening here).

       
      • theologyarchaeology

        March 8, 2016 at 1:50 am

        I do not believe you understand what ‘imposing’ means. Telling others about their beliefs is NOT imposing anything. You also do not understand how Christians or Christianity work and generalize what a few misguided people do to all believers and that is a mistake.

        You forget that businesses get to run their business their way not yours. You are guilty of what you are accusing Christians of doing- you are imposing your beliefs upon them

         
        • darthtimon

          March 8, 2016 at 7:28 am

          Telling people they’re abnormal is bad enough, but trying to assert that a public business (bound by laws and regulations) can deny someone service based on their sexual orientation IS a form of imposing one’s personal beliefs upon others. A business is not a private entity; it does not have free reign to operate in any manner of its choosing. Businesses operate in the public domain and the minute they start using what should be personal, private beliefs to deny customers service, they are imposing their values upon that customer.

           
          • theologyarchaeology

            March 8, 2016 at 7:39 am

            You do not seem to understand a lot. You failed to read the parts where those owners never turned away a homosexual customer. They served plenty of them. All they did was refuse to participate in activities they deemed to be sinful and against their faith. There is nothing wrong with doing that.

            You also forget that many businesses hang up signs saying ‘we reserve the right to refuse service…’ which is also their right.

            You also do not grasp how businesses are run and by analyzing your words, YOU ARE IMPOSING your ideas and beliefs upon those who disagree with you and have the freedom to choose just like you demand for yourself.

            It is apparent that people like you only believe in freedom that goes one way– your way and this is the end of the discussion because you refuse to impart the basic freedoms to others that you demand for yourself. You also forget that the simple solution to this whole matter was for the denied people to simply vote with their feet but they won’t do that because their hatred for Christ and Christians tells them not to do the right thing but do worse by ruining those who refused them service.,

            It is clear from the results of each case that the actions taken by the homosexuals was far worse than what the proprietors did and their punishment did not fit the crime since they committed no crime. It was a graver injustice what was done to them yet you raise no word of protest about that crime.

            Your hypocrisy says it all.

             
          • darthtimon

            March 8, 2016 at 8:56 pm

            – this discussion is over.

             
  6. theologyarchaeology

    March 8, 2016 at 10:26 pm

    I edited that last comment down to the most important detail. He repeats what I already said. People complain all the time but the Bible says ‘turn the other cheek’ I have yet to see one homosexual do just that.

    In fact, many homosexuals claim to love and obey God yet I have yet to see that as well as so many commands and instructions are forgotten or ignored as the homosexual forces their agenda upon a world that doesn’t want it.

    darthtimon loves to accuse religious people of forcing their views on others yet turns a blind eye when the homosexuals do the exact same thing. When the people in California and other states voted no to legalizing same-sex marriage, did the homosexual community practice what they preach and not force their views upon others?

    No, they went to the courts and forced their views upon everyone else, even when the will of the people, the majority, rejected that idea. So the homosexual, their community and supporters have no complaint against those businesses who refuse to honor their requests. it is NOT discrimination but the right of owning one;s own business, a right the homosexual wants to take away from business owners.

    Homosexuals need to remove the beams from their own eyes first before they complain about others and demand that those who disagree with them change.

     
 
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