I See Your 15 & Raise You 25

04 Jul

Well the amount of questions have risen to 40. First, 40 was asked of same-sex supporters  at The Gospel Coalition’s website

Now 40 written by Michael Vine are listed at the following link:

I am not going to go through the group at TGC as they are not for me to answer but the ones posed by Vine are (indirectly) yet as I read them I think we are going to get more of the apples to oranges  type than really addressing the issue. But here goes:

#1. Do you accept that sexual orientation is not a choice?

No.  I lean towards the idea that non-heterosexual preference is a deception made by evil on humans in hopes of luring them to their destruction

#2. Do you accept that sexual orientation is highly resistant to attempts to change it?

That would be dependent upon the person and if God has given them over to their lusts or not. (Rom. 1)

#3. How many meaningful relationships with lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender (LGBT) people do you have?

Right now, none that I know of BUT back in my less stellar days one of my best friends was homosexual  and I used to eat dinner with him and his partner at least once a week. To see what it was like, I even went to a couple of homosexual and lesbian bars.

#4. How many openly LGBT people would say you are one of their closest friends?

None now and before my less than stellar days, none because there is no fellowship between righteous and unrighteous (2 Cor. 6:14)

#5. How much time have you spent in one-on-one conversation with LGBT Christians about their faith and sexuality?

None because there is no such thing as a Christian LBGT person (2 Cor. 5:17)

#6. Do you accept that heterosexual marriage is not a realistic option for most gay people?

No and that rejection is just a weak excuse to try to justify same-sex marriage.  Homosexuals can still live together and have companionship without ruining marriage or promoting their sin.

#7. Do you accept that lifelong celibacy is the only valid option for most gay people if all same-sex relationships are sinful?

No because if they have truly repented of their sis, they were made new creatures thus their sex life will be what it is except same-sex unions and participation is out of the question and not one of the options for them. That question denies the redeeming work of Christ and shows that the homosexual do not include Christ in their lives.

#8. How many gay brothers and sisters in Christ have you walked with on the path of mandatory celibacy, and for how long?

Why would I do that? I am free to marry  an opposite sex mate and so are they. If they reject that option, then it is their choice to do so. This question is setting people up to convince people that participating in sin is better than being celibate.

#9. What is your answer for gay Christians who struggled for years to live out a celibacy mandate but were driven to suicidal despair in the process?

It depends upon the situation. If they were truly redeemed then this would not be a problem. They would not have the desire for homosexual sex. If they were ‘driven’ to ‘suicidal despair’ then there are many problems we could look at. First, they were not truly redeemed because they did not truly repent; second, they were constantly tempted to return to the homosexual life; Third, they place too much importance on sex. The question is too general to answer specifically

#10 Has mandatory celibacy produced good fruit in the lives of most gay Christians you know?

Depends upon how you define ‘good fruit’. Sex is not a criteria for producing good fruit. Vine is confused about scriptural teaching as allowing homosexual sex to take place will not produce good fruit for the people are living in sin and God. Allowing sinful sex in a person’s life is only encouraging them to disobey God and no good fruit comes from disobedience.

#11 How many married same-sex couples do you know?

None but this is not germane to the issue. Knowing married homosexuals doe snot change our duty to obey God’s word and oppose sin. Also, knowing married homosexuals does not make the homosexual couple sinless.

#12 Do you believe that same-sex couples’ relationships can show the fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control?

No.  Nothing of God is in homosexuality.

#13 Do you believe that it is possible to be a Christian and support same-sex marriage in the church?

No. Sin is not allowed in the church. We believers do not support evil or call it good (Is 5:20)

#14 Do you believe that it is possible to be a Christian and support slavery?

Apples and oranges and is not germane to the issue. First, please produce the passage that says slavery and supporting is sin and an abomination unto God. Second, God did not warn practitioners of slavery that they would be given over to that desire. Third, Immature Christians may not know any better so they may support slavery until they grow in Christ some more.

#15 If not, do you believe that Martin Luther, John Calvin, and Jonathan Edwards were not actually Christians because they supported slavery?

Distraction from the real issue. Has nothing to do with homosexuality and same-sex marriage and just clouds the issue.

#16 Do you think supporting same-sex marriage is a more serious problem than supporting slavery?

Immaterial. Homosexuality, whether it is more serious or not, is still a sin and an abomination unto God thus no matter how serious it is, no believer can support it.

#17 Did you spend any time studying the Bible’s passages about slavery before you felt comfortable believing that slavery is wrong?

Slavery exists in many forms today, which passage would you want believers to study? But again, this question is immaterial and not germane to the issue. No cities were destroyed because of slavery being practiced.

#18 Does it cause you any concern that Christians throughout most of church history would have disagreed with you?

People have free choice and they must give an account to God for those choices. For me I side with God regardless of how many people disagree with me, either past or present. The fact that people agreed or disagreed with slavery or the acceptance of homosexuality, their opinions do not change God’s instructions on either issue.

#19 Did you know that, for most of church history, Christians believed that the Bible taught the earth stood still at the center of the universe?

So? That has nothing to do with this issue and guess what– The secular world came up with the idea that the earth stood still long before Christians misguidedly took up the information.

#20 Does it cause you any concern that you disagree with their interpretation of the Bible?

No because Jesus said to go for the truth not the interpretation and he said the HS will lead us to the truth not the interpretation.

#21 Did you spend any time studying the Bible’s verses on the topic before you felt comfortable believing that the earth revolves around the sun?

The Bible never taught that the sun revolved around the earth but again, this question is worthless as it distracts from the issue.

#22 Do you know of any Christian writers before the 20th century who acknowledged that gay people must be celibate for life due to the church’s rejection of same-sex relationships?

Moot. That time is over and they may not have had the truth. We live in the present and we need to find the truth which the homosexual ignores because they really do not want to give up their sin of homosexuality. It isn’t about what the past people believed or not, it is about the sinner and how honest they are in their repentance of sin.

#23 If not, might it be fair to say that mandating celibacy for gay Christians is not a traditional position?

Doesn’t matter. It is what God wants that is important. God’s will is not dependent upon tradition and if he wants a redeemed homosexual to be celibate then they should be ready for that option. The redeemed homosexual cannot return to sin (2 Pet. 2:22)

#24 Do you believe that the Bible explicitly teaches that all gay Christians must be single and celibate for life?

The Bible teaches that a truly repented sinner is redeemed and made a new creature and that they are not to return to their old ways. We also know that the bible does not teach nor give permission for believers to participate in same-sex marriages.

#25 If not, do you feel comfortable affirming something that is not explicitly affirmed in the Bible?

A single and celibate life style is an option and is taught in the Bible (Mt. 19:12)

#26 Do you believe that the moral distinction between lust and love matters for LGBT people’s romantic relationships?

I believe that LBGT people do not understand what real love is and they confuse love for lust.

#27 Do you think that loving same-sex relationships should be assessed in the same way as the same-sex behavior Paul explicitly describes as lustful in Romans 1?

Of course as they are the same thing.. Lev. 20:13  tells us ‘– If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman– there is no distinction between same-sex sexual activity and you are splitting hairs..

#28 Do you believe that Paul’s use of the terms “shameful” and “unnatural” in Romans 1:26-27 means that all same-sex relationships are sinful?

Yes & see #27

#29 Would you say the same about Paul’s description of long hair in men as “shameful” and against “nature” in 1 Corinthians 11:14, or would you say he was describing cultural norms of his time?

Like the other apple questions this one has nothing to do with the orange we are discussing. Culture does not dictate God’s word nor interpret it. it i snot a light unto God’s word or believers. God’s word and believers are the light unto culture (Jn. 8:12, 9:5 Mt. 5:14 5:16 Lk 11:35)

#30 Do you believe that the capacity for procreation is essential to marriage?

Not germane to the issue. Homosexuals cannot become one which disqualifies them from marriage regardless if they procreate or not.

#31 If so, what does that mean for infertile heterosexual couples?

Nothing. They are allowed to be married because God ordained marriage to be between a man and a woman.

#32 How much time have you spent engaging with the writings of LGBT-affirming Christians like Justin Lee, James Brownson, and Rachel Murr?

None. Their books are not in this country and they would fall under the category of false teachers (2 Pet. 2:1) What they say is not of God and can be dismissed without consideration.

#33 What relationship recognition rights short of marriage do you support for same-sex couples?

None. Their relationship is sin and it cannot be accepted or supported.

#34 What are you doing to advocate for those rights?

Nothing. See #33

#35 Do you know who Tyler Clementi, Leelah Alcorn, and Blake Brockington are, and did your church offer any kind of prayer for them when their deaths made national news?

Yes. No we do not pray for the dead, it is too late for them now to have prayers change their lives.  Keep in mind that no one twisted their arms or forced them to kill themselves, their deaths were made by their choice alone and they would be alive today if they did not make that choice.

#36 Do you know that LGBT youth whose families reject them are 8.4 times more likely to attempt suicide than LGBT youth whose families support them?

Yes it is tragic BUT GUESS WHAT– their decisions to try to kill themselves do not change God’s view of homosexuality, his instructions to his followers and their need to repent.

#37 Have you vocally objected when church leaders and other Christians have compared same-sex relationships to things like bestiality, incest, and pedophilia?

No because sin is sin. Even if the homosexual thinks or believes that their practice is not as bad as those mentioned in the question, their sexual preference is still sin and still an abomination to God.

#38 How certain are you that God’s will for all gay Christians is lifelong celibacy?

I have never claimed that option is God’s will for homosexuals who truly repent of their alternative sexual preference.  IT IS God’s will that they give up their sin of homosexuality and practice of it and become new creatures.

#39 What do you think the result would be if we told all straight teenagers in the church that if they ever dated someone they liked, held someone’s hand, kissed someone, or got married, they would be rebelling against God?

You would be lying as those are not sins nor rebelling against God. Homosexuality is both a sin and a rebellious act against God.

#40 Are you willing to be in fellowship with Christians who disagree with you on this topic?

Not germane to the issue and it would depend if they were homosexuals or not, accepting and supporting sin or not.  For if they were then they would be sinning against God and church discipline would come into play.

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Posted by on July 4, 2015 in academics, Bible, church, controversial issues, education, faith, family, General Life, homosexuality, leadership, theology


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