Much To Talk About- 130

31 May

#1. Why Go To Church & Why Call Yourself A Christian When…–

My Bible doesn’t say “By scripture you have been saved, through believing it is authored by God.” But even if it did, why should someone accept that just because humans say it? I don’t say that any Scriptures are authored by God. All of them are human products, and we are responsible to use our human reasoning and discernment in interpreting them and agreeing or disagreeing with them.

You think like the above quote.  Those are McGrath’s words to me in a discussion under his ‘defending the Bible’ post.  What is the point of teaching Sunday School, being a professor of biblical subjects, a Pastor, , missionary and so on when you think like that?  Also why follow God at all or go to church? You just said you do not believe a word he said and that the Bible is not divine, inspired, inerrant and have removed salvation and hope from people’s lives.

Yes, that you have mistaken human words for the words of God, and have the audacity to presume to dictate what God must have provided in order to meet your fundamentalist demand for certainty is indeed sad. It was sad when I mistakenly viewed the Bible that way, too, but fortunately I studied the Bible and was willing to let the evidence from the Bible challenge my dogmas about the Bible.

This is the standard, pat reply you get from alternative believers. They change the meaning of your words in order to avoid the reality of their situation. McGrath should not call himself a Christian as Jesus never took either view and he should simply stop teaching the Bible and sunday school as well as going to church for he is just wasting everybody’s time and lying to them.

#2. They Only Want To Preach What They Want...–

i have read the link backs to your blog, where you pick my blogs and other people’s blogs apart line by line, and know that absolutely no good can come out of a scriptural toe-to-toe with you. feel free to go to christians for biblical equality for a strong biblical framework for equality.

This is a comment I received in reply to a post I made on Kathy Escobar’s website. I simply asked for the Bible verses she uses to justify her position and as you can see, she refused to respond. The reason they cannot go ‘toe to toe’ with me is because they use scripture their own way and not the way God wrote it. The take scriptures out of context, do a lot of eisegesis, alter other texts because the biblical verses do not say what they want them to say,  then claim they are being biblical.

In her response to me she put in a link to the CBE website but as you look through it’s about page, you see a verse taken out of context in order to justify their mission and purpose. They use Gal. 3:28 but guess what, and this will be news to them, that verse does not over-rule God’s instructions found in other books of the Bible.

CBE exists to promote biblical justice and community by educating Christians that the Bible calls women and men to share authority equally in service and leadership in the home, church, and world. (

This is nothing but a lie and ignores explicit passages of scripture which says something altogether different. I will go through that website’s core values in the next section.

#3. Core Values??–

They actually look like results from a spoiled child’s temper tantrum but here they are with a little commentary. Oh and I will say up front that I challenge the people to honesty post scriptures that back their views. Not one appears in that list.

Scripture is our authoritative guide for faith, life, and practice.

Obvious it isn’t as they only put 1 out of context and misapplied verse on the page. That value tells me that they are going to be cherry picking when you view it in context with their mission statement quoted in the last section. If scripture was their guide then they would have a much different attitude and seek the truth instead of seeking their own selfish desires.

Patriarchy (male dominance) is not a biblical ideal but a result of sin.

That is not what scripture has taught at all. When God was talking about creating a woman, he did not say let’s create a co-leader but a helpmeet, a helper.

20 The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the [q]sky, and to every beast of the field, but for [r]Adam there was not found a helper [s]suitable for him. (Gen. 2 NASB)

While many can point to the following verse as support for that quoted ideology,

Yet your desire will be for your husband,
And he will rule over you.” (Gen. 3:16 NASB)

It must be remembered that Woman was created before the curse and God still used the word helper, helpmeet, etc., for her. The idea of patriarchy is a biblical ideal.

Patriarchy is an abuse of power, taking from females what God has given them: their dignity, and freedom, their leadership, and often their very lives.

The quoted words are the result of deception. No man ‘took power from women’. Now some men may abuse their patriarchal status but that does not men patriarchy is wrong, sinful or not biblical. It means that some men were influenced by evil and misused their positions for their own gain. Since God granted man the right to rule over women, they took nothing that wasn’t already theirs. How men ruled is a different matter and falls under individual sin and is not a call for the destruction of God’s order for life.

While the Bible reflects patriarchal culture, the Bible does not teach patriarchy in human relationships.

This is just another lie and here is why: 22 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. (Eph. 5); In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, (1 Pet. 3:1); For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands (1 Pet. 3:5); Wives, be subject to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. (Col. 3:18)

So we can see that the Bible does teach patriarchy in human relations.

Christ’s redemptive work frees all people from patriarchy, calling women and men to share authority equally in service and leadership.

This is absolutely not true and they have no biblical verse to support that point. If their point were true then why did God have Paul and Peter write the instructions above? They wrote after Jesus resurrection and would have mentioned that freedom if it was granted by Christ’s redemptive work. That organization knows nothing about  leadership if they think there can be 2 leaders running the show.

God’s design for relationships includes faithful marriage between a man and a woman, celibate singleness and mutual submission in Christian community.

But as the verses have shown us, men are in charge of the family and women are not. There is no biblical verse granting women equality in leadership. Here is another verse proving that organization and its core values wrong:

22 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. 24 But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything. (Eph. 5)

The Bible cannot be any clearer on this issue.

The unrestricted use of women’s gifts is integral to the work of the Holy Spirit and essential for the advancement of the gospel in the world.

This would undermine the husband’s and the male church leadership’s authority and states that woman can do whatever they want even if God says no. The advancement of the gospel cannot be done when people sin and women sin when they go against God’s rules.

Followers of Christ are to oppose injustice and patriarchal teachings and practices that marginalize and abuse females and males.

This is another bald-faced lie as Christ’s followers obey God’s instructions

Samuel said, “Has the Lord as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices As in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, And to heed than the fat of rams. (1 Sam.15:22)

Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? (Lk. 6:46)

Yes we are to oppose true injustice but someone who wants to disobey God and doesn’t get their way is not a true injustice. Nor is disallowing women to be pastors, church and family leaders an abuse of women. That last core value is nothing more than bullying the church into accepting false teaching and lies.

There is not one bible verse that agrees with that organization and they should not be allowed to work in the church at all. The Bible also shows that that organization is not following scriptures for guidance for faith, life and practice. it shows that that organization is misusing the bible for their own purpose and not God’s.

#4. They Believe...–

We believe that biblical equality as reflected in this document is true to Scripture. We stand united in our conviction that the Bible, in its totality, is the liberating Word that provides the most effective way for women and men to exercise their gifts distributed by the Holy Spirit and thus to serve God.

Billy Graham said once that whenever he said ‘The Bible says…’ or something similar to that, he felt a great rush of power with his words (and I am quoting that from memory) but when people say ‘i believe…’ or ‘we believe…’ it doesn’t mean they have it right or that God is with those words. As we can see by that quote, God is not with those words as they are not anchored in the word of God and they cannot say ‘The Bible says…’ because the Bible does not say that.

The Bible is the liberating word but from sin not from God’s rules and instructions. Both men and women are to exercise their gifts according to God’s rules not their own desires or selfish demands.

The statement of equality they present at that link is too long for this post so I may end up doing a second just for that alone. For this post, suffice it to say that they do a lot of eisegesis adding into scriptures their own ideas and are not following the HS to the truth


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Posted by on May 31, 2015 in academics, Bible, church, controversial issues, faith, leadership, theology


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