Under the Inspiration of the Bible 4 is a comment which I will quote here made by a guy who claims to be a Christian. It is a classic example of someone leaping to conclusions and assumption then using their own interpretation to make comments that answer their own interpretive results and not the words that I have spoken. His words bother me because he assumes and makes claims about me without checking with me first to see if he got it right. He then attacks my character and intelligence by his interpretive remarks.
Jesus did give us a mandate to follow science. You can read it in John 3:12.
KJV—“If I [Jesus] have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?”
That verse has nothing to do with science as Jesus taught creation in 6 24 hour days when he spoke on the topic. He did not present any scientific information nor did he say ‘to use science to get to the truth’. He said ‘ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. We do not need science to get to the truth, the truth is found in many places and we need the HS to help get us to it.
Can science present the truth? Only if done correctly and that would mean not following the rules and regulations constructed by secular science adherents. The telling of ‘earthly things’ in that verse does not necessary refer to science. Those words can refer to anything and it would be an arrogant person who would assume that they refer to science.
Seeing as you have just completed a 4-Part series on how all of The Holy Bible is directly inspired by God, who we both know Jesus is, then all of The Bible is what Jesus said. Science is discussed at numerous places in Scripture. But the enemy of science, and faith, is also discussed in 1 Timothy 6:20.
KJV—“O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:”
I addressed this point in my short remarks in the comment section of Inspiration of the Bible 4. The term ‘science’ can also include, and does include, the field of theology thus to take one word and apply it to one limited research field is arrogant and misleading. Paul could be referring to theological opposition to the truth and Matthew Henry seems to back me up on this as he says:
[3.] That science that opposes the truth of the gospel is falsely so called; it
is not true science, for if it were it would approve of the gospel and
consent to it.
[4.] Those who are so fond of such science are in great danger of erring
concerning the faith; those who are for advancing reason above faith are in
danger of leaving faith. (Commentary on the Whole Bible Vol. 10)
People should not be assuming what Paul means when he uses certain words until they research those terms with brighter minds than their own. Here is what Albert Barnes has to say on the issue:
And oppositions of science falsely so called Religion has nothing to fear
from true science, and the minister of the gospel is not exhorted to dread
that. Real science, in all its advances, contributes to the support of religion;
and just in proportion as that is promoted will it be found to sustain the
Bible, and to confirm the claims of religion to the faith of mankind. See this
illustrated at length in Wiseman’s Lectures on the connection between
science and religion. It is only false or pretended science that religion has
to dread, and which the friend of Christianity is to avoid. The meaning here
is, that Timothy was to avoid everything which falsely laid claim to being’
“knowledge’“ or “science.” There was much of this in the world at the time
the apostle wrote; and this, more perhaps than anything else, has tended to
corrupt true religion since.(Barnes Notes on the Bible Vol. 15)
We can oppose science when it lies about things of this world. This also brings me to my next concern about that comment:
You keep making it sound like science is secular and evil, but it isn’t. What the world uses against us is falsely named science, it is pseudo-science! Real science is Creationism, like what is seen at Answers in Genesis and the Institute for Creation Research.
Over the past 14 years I have read and studied a lot of material and some of the details do tend to escape recall and one of those details are the names of others who also use the term ‘secular science’. I am not the only one who uses that term and it is not misused. When I use that term with unbelievers in the many different discussions I have had over the years, they get as upset as eisner does, why he does I do not know but he is splitting hairs and being nit picky.
Secular science is a term used to describe the source of information and that that source doe snot have God’s stamp of approval nor involvement. It is secular in every sense of the word’s definition (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/secular) which you can access through that link in brackets. Answers in Genesis actually uses different terminology when categorizing science than Their labels can be found at the following link:
and are called: historical and observational not pseudo-science as eisner suggests. Real science simply includes God and does their work God’s way omitting all the secular rules and regulations, etc. Sadly, to many Christians want to do real science yet fail to excise the secular part that guides their work thus their work can be tainted and confusing. Clarity comes from God not scientific work, the truth comes from God and only if he guides the work to the right conclusion– the truth.
Secular science depends upon questions and ignores the answers they dig up. That is one of the problems if secular science, they do not want the truth for the truth means they will have to stop their work and move on to a different topic. Secular science i snot really pseudo-science, but it employs that aspect in its work. Secular science has evil as its source and when I say we go against secular science I mean we identify their lies and refute those. Not all the work of secular scientists comes up a lie or faulty information. We believers just need to learn how to sort the lies from the truth God wants us to know.
God created this world, He has destroyed it in a flood, and numerous other events which have left a physical fingerprint on this planet. Supernatural or not, the effects burned whole cities to ash, left memories in ancient records, and covered the earth in miles of sedimentary rock.
What bothers me about this comment, though while true it insults the other person and assumes that they do not know this fact even though the person using the term secular science has been a believer in Jesus for a very long time and has moved on past square one and deeper into the faith. Assuming people do not know this basic fact is an insult to their intelligence and faith. it is an arrogant position that states that the speaker thinks he is the only one who knows such things.
Hard to say what he means by ‘ancient records’ as NO piece of written information has surfaced from the pre-flood world. There is also know way of knowing if certain documents originated in the pre-flood world or not. The post-flood era has many languages and symbols that cannot be deciphered by modern researchers.
Science, when used correctly, works hand-in-hand with faith. Science can never replace faith.
Wile I tend to agree with these two comments, the superiority complex of the writer just puts me off. Again he assumes that I do not know anything even though I have about 4 science and theological degrees behind my name and have written about true science many times over.
If that were the case, the evidence crying up from the ground would convert every single atheist in a heartbeat
No not really for the author of those words forgets about evil and its deception strategy. It is a naive statement to make and ignores so many influences and mitigating factors that one should be laughing at that writer right now instead of taking the time to analyze his words.There is a reason God said to study; in 1 Tim. and
“Boast no more so very proudly, Do not let arrogance come out of your mouth; For the Lord is a God of knowledge, And with Him actions are weighed. (I Sam. 2:3 NASB)
ignorance and naivety are not part of the Christian life.
It doesn’t because the evidence doesn’t shake a matter like willful rejection, faith against God. Nevertheless, science continues to testify of God Almighty. We know the universe declares His glory, and astronomy is science!
This last part is just gibberish, incoherent and naive. It ignores facts like God sending a powerful delusion to the world and that many people see the truth yet willfully ignore that truth and willfully become deceived. By the way that verse from 1 Sam. is but one of 153 that contain the word knowledge and there is even a wiser one to use
The mind of the prudent acquires knowledge, And the ear of the wise seeks knowledge.(Prov. 18:15 NASB)
The problem with that pursuit is that many people ignore the biblical passages that tell them how to assemble and implement that newly obtained knowledge. They think that they know something and they must spout it all the time without thinking and without considering that others have learned those same pieces of information long before them.
We are to use wisdom and understanding when we wield knowledge and not use it wildly, like flinging a machete about in a dense tropical jungle cutting a path to our destination. We believers have God’s rules to employ when we present our side of the issue and when we talk to other believers. When we seek knowledge we should do so by following the HS so we know we are getting the correct information and can avoid the traps evil sets when one studies different fields of learning.
To believe that God created everything in 6 days a person does not need science to do so. To believe that the flood and exodus, or Jesus lived all took place all one has to do is accept God at his word and believe him. We do not need science to believe or maintain our faith but science, if done correctly, can shore up that faith.
God’s rule is–use faith and if you read the Bible you would see that there is no ‘science’ chapter anywhere within its pages BUT there is a faith chapter, Hebrews 11 and over 300 verses talking about faith in the Bible. The most famous probably is–
The just shall live by faith.(Gal. 3:11 KJV)
Notice it does not say the just shall live by science. Science is a mere tool to get us knowledge, It has no authority nor importance over faith. The key is when we use science we ask the HS to get us to the truth so our faith will be made stronger not weakened by the lies produced by the secular version.